Type 25 Rebuild Progress.....
- Thread starter antonm
- Start date
F
forester sti
Guest
Good man Anton,
I can't wait for her to be home, bigger and better
Dan
I can't wait for her to be home, bigger and better
Dan
E
ericsti
Guest
Delighted for you Anton. She will live again and her journey begins now. Keep use posted. 
type25. 
type25. chris139ryan
Octane Boostaholics
gd man for getting her back to litchfield say you cant wait to get her back
F
forester sti
Guest
Hence the litchfeild closed deck conversion on the new motor!!
Jaysus, What would cause that??
She's only running 415bhp and the cossies only run 8.2:1 compression
I'm glad my new motor is linered!
@ Anton,
While your car is over in Powerstation/Litchfeild getting sorted,
Get Curtis to swap out your AST springs for a softer set,
They are relatively cheap, they suit our irish roads better and they will not adversely the handling of the car,
Well worth a phone call!
Dan
The top part of the bore is the thinnest and has least support, and well for lack of better term thats where the BANG happens., it can just happen at random, but big boost, and especially DET is a big cause,
Think they way it happens is, a crack forms and lets water into cylinder, and that increases the pressure and then bursts the wall like in the picture.. thats a ley mans description
Think they way it happens is, a crack forms and lets water into cylinder, and that increases the pressure and then bursts the wall like in the picture.. thats a ley mans description
You can see where the additional support comes into play
COMPARED TO..................
And when you compare the CDB below, you can easily see why they are considerd the strongest block.
I am not sure if litchfields/ Swindon engine builders are using Dowel inserts, or completely closing the block, if its the later, then it will end up looking almost the same as an original CDB
COMPARED TO..................
And when you compare the CDB below, you can easily see why they are considerd the strongest block.
I am not sure if litchfields/ Swindon engine builders are using Dowel inserts, or completely closing the block, if its the later, then it will end up looking almost the same as an original CDB
F
forester sti
Guest
Very educational Ken,
Good info to know!
I'll try get a pic of my tophat linered motor up for comparison!
Only thing that I can think that may still be a short fall is the headstuds!
I know the spec includes ultra high tensile jobbies!
But I'm thinking that 11mm headstuds may be at there limit,
Everything else is as good as it gets, like 700+bhp build
I'm thinking at this point, make sure that the new head studs are 14mm studs!
Then there is absolutely nothing that is left to chance! other than her being mapped for the wrong fuel!
I have 3 20L jerry cans you can fill with your native fuel to bring over to litchfeild for mapping if you like!
Dan
Good info to know!
I'll try get a pic of my tophat linered motor up for comparison!
Only thing that I can think that may still be a short fall is the headstuds!
I know the spec includes ultra high tensile jobbies!
But I'm thinking that 11mm headstuds may be at there limit,
Everything else is as good as it gets, like 700+bhp build
I'm thinking at this point, make sure that the new head studs are 14mm studs!
Then there is absolutely nothing that is left to chance! other than her being mapped for the wrong fuel!
I have 3 20L jerry cans you can fill with your native fuel to bring over to litchfeild for mapping if you like!
Dan
Dan be very very carefull who does the liners for you, there is more disaster stories than good ones, and imo its not yet quite masterd..
Experience is everything, there is a way of machining the block i think that can leave support for liner at the bottom aswel,
Check out Daz Davies project build on 22b.com, he started of with a linerd cdb, but then changed to athe above supported ej257. ,After he got the liner work done ,I think the fact that no supports were left on block was pointed out and he did not feel confident about going ahead with build
Experience is everything, there is a way of machining the block i think that can leave support for liner at the bottom aswel,
Check out Daz Davies project build on 22b.com, he started of with a linerd cdb, but then changed to athe above supported ej257. ,After he got the liner work done ,I think the fact that no supports were left on block was pointed out and he did not feel confident about going ahead with build
Rob Spec C
Octane Boostaholics
Ken do you have a picture of what a fully linered block looks like after the works been done?
Whats the general consensus on the dowel inserts, do they provide adequate support in the long term?
Whats the general consensus on the dowel inserts, do they provide adequate support in the long term?
F
forester sti
Guest
The Dowels are supposed to be a great job!
I am slightly concerned that they have to remove some material from the already narrow 2.5 cylinder walls to insert the dowels
I am slightly concerned that the linered block is a very awkward job, and if not done absolutely perfect, it will be nothing but trouble!
I bought a ready built and run in Linered block, that was destined for a race car in the UK. Right place, right time kinda thing,
If a Dowel'd block had of been for sale at the same time, then I would have had us all vigerously debating the pros and cons of each!
Closed deck blocks have heat dispersing problems due to the actual amount of material around the cylinder walls, that can and has led to blocks splitting!
As Anton's "Cosworth" motor demonstates, no matter how strong the parts you fit, Subarus semi closed deck 2.5 walls can let you down!
There doesn't seem to be an absolute correct answer as to what is the best scooby motor!
But soon enough, the club will have, A linered 2.5, A CDB converted 2.5, A CDB 2.35 and A Semi closed deck 2.0
All running over 450 bhp!
All we need is a Dowel'd motor and we'll have first hand experiance of all of the options!
Dan
I am slightly concerned that they have to remove some material from the already narrow 2.5 cylinder walls to insert the dowels
I am slightly concerned that the linered block is a very awkward job, and if not done absolutely perfect, it will be nothing but trouble!
I bought a ready built and run in Linered block, that was destined for a race car in the UK. Right place, right time kinda thing,
If a Dowel'd block had of been for sale at the same time, then I would have had us all vigerously debating the pros and cons of each!
Closed deck blocks have heat dispersing problems due to the actual amount of material around the cylinder walls, that can and has led to blocks splitting!
As Anton's "Cosworth" motor demonstates, no matter how strong the parts you fit, Subarus semi closed deck 2.5 walls can let you down!
There doesn't seem to be an absolute correct answer as to what is the best scooby motor!
But soon enough, the club will have, A linered 2.5, A CDB converted 2.5, A CDB 2.35 and A Semi closed deck 2.0
All running over 450 bhp!
All we need is a Dowel'd motor and we'll have first hand experiance of all of the options!
Dan
[quote author=Sweetcakes link=topic=25217.msg303539#msg303539 date=1281822796]
Ken do you have a picture of what a fully linered block looks like after the works been done?
Whats the general consensus on the dowel inserts, do they provide adequate support in the long term?
[/quote]
I seen pics before somewhere and cant remember, think its more of a Yank thing, maybe it was Crawford, or maybe Rigolis in Oz, think who ever it was called the process, closing a semi closed block
It ended up looking more or less same as CDB, instead of dowels they were inserting highly precision pieces that matche the contours of block
Ken do you have a picture of what a fully linered block looks like after the works been done?
Whats the general consensus on the dowel inserts, do they provide adequate support in the long term?
[/quote]
I seen pics before somewhere and cant remember, think its more of a Yank thing, maybe it was Crawford, or maybe Rigolis in Oz, think who ever it was called the process, closing a semi closed block
It ended up looking more or less same as CDB, instead of dowels they were inserting highly precision pieces that matche the contours of block
Sorry for the delay but this is what has been done. I got the car back last December;
Hi Anton,
As I said on the phone the car is astonishing. You should be impressed with not only how much quicker it is but it is also much nicer to drive around town.
The engine features our latest upgrades and require a huge amount of work.
We have used the latest EJ257 engine block which features the Nitride Crank shaft. We have had our new close deck block CNC cut and pressed into place. Your cylinder heads needed a lot of overhaul work to return them to a new condition as the broken liner in your old engine had warped them and damaged the fire faces. Once repaired both the heads and block halfs have been machined for the larger 14mm head studs (up from 10mm std) which will help stop anything moving under load.
We then built the engines up and had them honed to suit the oversized Mahle pistons. We left a small amount of material encase anything moved during the next stage. Once completed the components were stripped down and sent for cryogenic freezing. What we have found is that a brand new engine will move internally once it gets lots of heat into it which means any careful machining and measurements in the original build goes out the window. The Cryo freezing is what F1 and MOTOGP engines go through as the freezing removes the stress from castings so they should not need to move once warmed through. The process is also supposed to strengthen parts as it realigns the molecules.
It certainly works as when the engine came back one of your bores had become slightly oval and all of the crank journals had moved. These had moved so much that the crank would no longer turn by hand and the block need line boreing. We were able to remove the extra material left after the original hone to bring all the bores to perfect spec and the line boreing means the crank spins freely.
Our new engines also run a much higher compression ratio ( 9.1 vs 8.0 std) which drastically improves off boost driveability and turbo spool up.
We have not had a chance to put the car on a dyno as the mapping was done on the road however experience and data logs show the car is probably around 440bhp+/500lbft and is incredibly smooth.
As you still have the top mounted intercooler we have installed our LM500 turbo which is the latest version of our new design and as you’ll feel it responds incredibly quickly and produces the power with ease. If at a later date you decide you would like more power then you just need to change the intercooler, injectors and intake and the power can be taken to 480-510+ quite easily. If you would like the mapping adjusted for the lower octane fuel we can have someone fly out to you and fine tune with you. The engine is mapped for 97-99 octane fuel and you will need to run at least E5 fuel in Ireland. If you get stuck you can run the car on 95 octane and octane booster but I would not give the car full throttle as it will quickly pull timing and the engine will be susceptible to knock.
We have now mapped the car and changed the oil from the special running in oil to Motul Sport 5w-50
Kind Regards
Iain Litchfield
Director
Litchfield Imports
• Subaru Engine/Crank New Subaru MY08+ Block With Nitrided Crank
• EC Exedy Clutch
• LT25 Deck Litchfield Type-25 Close Deck Block Upgrade
• LM Rods Litchfield Type-25 Forged Fast Road Rods
• MSSUB126 Used Milltek Downpipe 1 113.14 113.14 17.5
• 2354018ZRCL0745 235/40ZR18 95Y Conti Sport Contact 3 XL FR TL
• V Tubeless Valve
• WBN Wheel Balance 4
• WRX209927I10 Mahle 99.75mm High Silicon Pistons
• PR7940 Main bearing set Subaru EJ20/25 Race1
• 20000916 Head gasket Subaru EJ25 101MM
• LM500-L70 Litchfield Turbo 1
• 44104FE060 Joint pipe assy 1
• 14038aa000 gasket front 2
• 44011FE020 GASKET OUTLET 1
• ADS77611 Auto Tensioner 1
• 20004953 Timing belt 1
• ILFR7H 10-10 Spark plug-5245 4
• 15208AA12A Subaru Oil Filter 2
• 11126aa000 Gasket sump 2
• LM WATER KIT Water Kit 1
• LM OIL LINES Litchfield Impreza 1
• LM OIL LINE ADAPTER 16x20 male/male restrictor adapter
• 20002499 Baffle plate 1
• 20001185 Oil pump kit 1
• PR7889 Rod bearing set Subaru EJ20/25 Race 1
• LM TURBO HEAT SHIELD turbo heat sheild 1
• RCM593 14mm WRC Head Stud Kit 1
• RCM658 Head Dowel For 14mm Stud Kit
• P73909 Radiator Subaru Impreza 1
• JOE GIBBS BREAKIN OIL
• MOTUL SPORT 5W50 1
Hi Anton,
As I said on the phone the car is astonishing. You should be impressed with not only how much quicker it is but it is also much nicer to drive around town.
The engine features our latest upgrades and require a huge amount of work.
We have used the latest EJ257 engine block which features the Nitride Crank shaft. We have had our new close deck block CNC cut and pressed into place. Your cylinder heads needed a lot of overhaul work to return them to a new condition as the broken liner in your old engine had warped them and damaged the fire faces. Once repaired both the heads and block halfs have been machined for the larger 14mm head studs (up from 10mm std) which will help stop anything moving under load.
We then built the engines up and had them honed to suit the oversized Mahle pistons. We left a small amount of material encase anything moved during the next stage. Once completed the components were stripped down and sent for cryogenic freezing. What we have found is that a brand new engine will move internally once it gets lots of heat into it which means any careful machining and measurements in the original build goes out the window. The Cryo freezing is what F1 and MOTOGP engines go through as the freezing removes the stress from castings so they should not need to move once warmed through. The process is also supposed to strengthen parts as it realigns the molecules.
It certainly works as when the engine came back one of your bores had become slightly oval and all of the crank journals had moved. These had moved so much that the crank would no longer turn by hand and the block need line boreing. We were able to remove the extra material left after the original hone to bring all the bores to perfect spec and the line boreing means the crank spins freely.
Our new engines also run a much higher compression ratio ( 9.1 vs 8.0 std) which drastically improves off boost driveability and turbo spool up.
We have not had a chance to put the car on a dyno as the mapping was done on the road however experience and data logs show the car is probably around 440bhp+/500lbft and is incredibly smooth.
As you still have the top mounted intercooler we have installed our LM500 turbo which is the latest version of our new design and as you’ll feel it responds incredibly quickly and produces the power with ease. If at a later date you decide you would like more power then you just need to change the intercooler, injectors and intake and the power can be taken to 480-510+ quite easily. If you would like the mapping adjusted for the lower octane fuel we can have someone fly out to you and fine tune with you. The engine is mapped for 97-99 octane fuel and you will need to run at least E5 fuel in Ireland. If you get stuck you can run the car on 95 octane and octane booster but I would not give the car full throttle as it will quickly pull timing and the engine will be susceptible to knock.
We have now mapped the car and changed the oil from the special running in oil to Motul Sport 5w-50
Kind Regards
Iain Litchfield
Director
Litchfield Imports
• Subaru Engine/Crank New Subaru MY08+ Block With Nitrided Crank
• EC Exedy Clutch
• LT25 Deck Litchfield Type-25 Close Deck Block Upgrade
• LM Rods Litchfield Type-25 Forged Fast Road Rods
• MSSUB126 Used Milltek Downpipe 1 113.14 113.14 17.5
• 2354018ZRCL0745 235/40ZR18 95Y Conti Sport Contact 3 XL FR TL
• V Tubeless Valve
• WBN Wheel Balance 4
• WRX209927I10 Mahle 99.75mm High Silicon Pistons
• PR7940 Main bearing set Subaru EJ20/25 Race1
• 20000916 Head gasket Subaru EJ25 101MM
• LM500-L70 Litchfield Turbo 1
• 44104FE060 Joint pipe assy 1
• 14038aa000 gasket front 2
• 44011FE020 GASKET OUTLET 1
• ADS77611 Auto Tensioner 1
• 20004953 Timing belt 1
• ILFR7H 10-10 Spark plug-5245 4
• 15208AA12A Subaru Oil Filter 2
• 11126aa000 Gasket sump 2
• LM WATER KIT Water Kit 1
• LM OIL LINES Litchfield Impreza 1
• LM OIL LINE ADAPTER 16x20 male/male restrictor adapter
• 20002499 Baffle plate 1
• 20001185 Oil pump kit 1
• PR7889 Rod bearing set Subaru EJ20/25 Race 1
• LM TURBO HEAT SHIELD turbo heat sheild 1
• RCM593 14mm WRC Head Stud Kit 1
• RCM658 Head Dowel For 14mm Stud Kit
• P73909 Radiator Subaru Impreza 1
• JOE GIBBS BREAKIN OIL
• MOTUL SPORT 5W50 1
Wow
what a car
and what a build
cant wait for the feature on it
what a car
and what a build
cant wait for the feature on it
Rob Spec C
Octane Boostaholics
Nearly a full year's anniversary since the last post 
Sounds amazing Anton, fair play for going the right way about it and keeping it an original litchfield car
I wouldn't like to see your bill after all that though :lol:
Sounds amazing Anton, fair play for going the right way about it and keeping it an original litchfield car
I wouldn't like to see your bill after all that though :lol: