Track car

P

Paul v4

Petrolheads
Hello lads

Iv been wanting to build a track/fast road car for a while but didnt know what to go for

but i have made up my mind its goin to be a CIVIC :D im goin to buy a eg6 (92-95) two door

civic and strip the whole thing, i have a mate that has a crashed 98 ek9 (type r) so i can get the engine gear box brakes anything

i need realy but i want to know is how hard would this be and what would be the best model to go for :ponder: i was thinking

the 1.6 esi or the sir, i know its probly not the best site to find out about this but i just tought id ask :thumbsup:
 
Hi Paul,

I had a fast road civic myself before the scooby and it was animal on the track, definitley the right car to go for.

I had a 4 door VTi/SiR 160hp, lowered with 17", full decat exhaust and induction kit ( probably brought it up to 170 odd hp ) and it was a rocket around mondello, I managed to go 10mph faster (110mph) on the straights with that than I did in my 265hp scooby this year!!

2 door and 4 door civic use the same chassis as well so don;t fork out the extra for a 2 door version if you can find a 4 door or hatchback for cheaper.

Regards the engine, box and brakes, should be a doddle to swap over, go for a 1.4 and strip it out, then get your mates lots and bung it in, simple hondata ecu or just go for a Apexi V-AFR and you can tune it enough from there. The brakes on a 1.4 are drums on the back but you can get the hubs from your mates and put the discs on the back, there only sliding calipers but they do the job nicely. I put a big brake conversion on after from Icetronics which helped me alot, some goodridge braided lines from Demon Tweeks and some 5.1 and the braking was decent enough without overheating.

Nick the strut brace form the type R as well.

Another good thing to get to prolong the life is a oil cooler, I got one from mocal along with a sandwidge plate and some braided lines, all bolts straight on but it is awkward to get to ( you get dirty! ) but it keep the engine cool, a 13 row cooler is more than enough and it sits nicely behind the grill where the honda badge is. ( get rid of the grille obviously )

Hope this helps,

Cill

PS - get a Haynes manual when swaping the engines over, some people slate them but I found them to be gospel when pulling my engine out twice! The only thing is get a impact gun to loosen the crank pulley bolt while its on the car if your changing the timing belt, Haynes underestimate how tight it is in their instructions!
 
Thanks cill thats a great help :clap:

the only reason i was goin to go for the 2 door is because i tought

it would be a lot lighter, would it be?

do you know any good places that do this sort of work on hondas :thumbsup:
 
No worries mate,

I wouldn;t think the 2 door coupe would be much lighter than the 4 door and I think it would be heavier than the 3 door hatch, so the extra few quid you'd pay wouldn;t be worth it, also the 3 door has very little overhangs which would help with the handling.

I had a supercharger put it to mine afterwards and I got Tuning Factory in JFK ind. est. to do it, they were cheap enough but they don't have a dyno or rollers to tune it after, I think they use martin tracy. At the time, I had them install it and then sent it to TDP for tuning on the dyno, TDP found that tuning factory had put a few vacuum hoses and connections in the wrong place and had to fix their install job and tuned it up after to 246hp, not bad out of a 1.6, then engine lasted 100 miles and 2 laps before eating through a piston due to a fooked injector! I nearly cried! :cry: :cry: . Anyway 8 months and a set of forged pistons had me back on the road with 238hp under the foot, its a serious sleeper if ever there was one, ate scoobys up! Only WRX's though! :p The power curve was basically a straight line from 1000rpm to 8500, savage tuning job by TDP but they don;t do road cars anymore unfortunately.

I think tuning factory would do a good job for you now but its a bit of fun to do it yourself, you can;t go wrong with a haynes manual and what you are doing is simple stuff. Just remember to take your mates ecu as well, its behind some plastic on the left of the passenger footwell

Another good person to try would be George in GT performance on 086 1013616, he's a decent bloke with good knowledge and I'm sure he would do you a good price.

Whatever you do stay away from TTM in Galway, I hear they break engines!

Icetronics in Redcow will get you all the parts you need too, if its Honda, they do it! You might even find yourself picking up one of the 2 litre iVTEC eg's, they bring in old 3 door eg's and slap K20's into them.. check it out

If you need any help at all, let me know, I've a good knowledge of hondas at this stage!
 
Fair play i will thanks :thumbsup:

246 brake out of a 1.6 mad :shock: as for TTM in galway my imperza type r was mapped by them

but it seems fine but i think i was before they start gettin a realy bad rep :ponder:

il let you know how i get on anyways mate :thumbsup:
 
Yeah, it was a fun car alright, the amount of surprised looks I got when taking off was hilarious :lol:

Let me know what you decide, I'd be interested to hear.

Regards TTM, I'm glad you got your sorted, I've just heard the storys... you know. I've also seen one of their dyno graphs for an evo.. it was showing 150hp at 1000rpm :whistle: a Excel job all the way!! Needless to say the car didn;t survive the trip from Galway to Dublin :shock:

@ Dave - I hear what your saying alright, but this discussion has been had before, TDP may have a bad rep but Robbie really does know his sh!t, and he did an amazing job tuning my engine, the graph was a straight line through 7500 rpm... not an easy feat, I'm sure you;ll agree. As for tuning factory, they do loads of Hondas and I'm sure they have a good knowledge, but on my charger they had left the map sensor reading atmosphere!! :ponder: So it didn;t inspire confidence in them
 
[quote author=Cill link=topic=4965.msg54532#msg54532 date=1200389306]
Yeah, it was a fun car alright, the amount of surprised looks I got when taking off was hilarious  :lol:

Let me know what you decide, I'd be interested to hear.

Regards TTM, I'm glad you got your sorted, I've just heard the storys... you know. I've also seen one of their dyno graphs for an evo.. it was showing 150hp at 1000rpm  :whistle: a Excel job all the way!! Needless to say the car didn;t survive the trip from Galway to Dublin  :shock:

@ Dave - I hear what your saying alright, but this discussion has been had before, TDP may have a bad rep but Robbie really does know his sh!t, and he did an amazing job tuning my engine, the graph was a straight line through 7500 rpm... not an easy feat, I'm sure you;ll agree. As for tuning factory, they do loads of Hondas and I'm sure they have a good knowledge, but on my charger they had left the map sensor reading atmosphere!!  :ponder: So it didn;t inspire confidence in them


[/quote]


Ive seen a few TTM dyno graphs the last while and they where all crazy figures. Im amazed you have heard horror storys about TTM but not TDP. TDP invented the horror story. IIRC one of the club members here had his car tuned and rolling roaded at TDP and put out 479 or 489 but when it went on another rolling road it was early 400's. You might be suprised what SOME companys do for business. For instance If you get mapped from a rival mapper and go down you might get a low figure and told how you could do with a map or tweak etc etc.

There may be bad blood between TDP and the Tuning factory so that might explain why they couldent do anything right in the eyes of TDP. You have to read between the lines.
 
[quote author=Paul v4 link=topic=4965.msg54483#msg54483 date=1200352732]
Fair play  i will thanks  :thumbsup:

246 brake out of a 1.6 mad  :shock: as for TTM in galway my imperza type r was mapped by them

but it seems fine but i think i was before they start gettin a realy bad rep  :ponder:

il let you know how i get on anyways mate  :thumbsup:
[/quote]


What ECU have you got Paul, or is it EcuTek ?
 
Thanks cill thats a great help clap

the only reason i was goin to go for the 2 door is because i tought

it would be a lot lighter, would it be?

do you know any good places that do this sort of work on hondas thumb
Click to expand...

Hey Paul best of luck with your build :thumbsup:
I would of thought a 2 Door car would be stronger and the chassis
more rigid than a 4 door ....... which should be better for corners etc....

Im no expert on this so Maybe someone might have better info

Niall.
 
[quote author=Renno link=topic=4965.msg54534#msg54534 date=1200390519]
[quote author=Cill link=topic=4965.msg54532#msg54532 date=1200389306]
Yeah, it was a fun car alright, the amount of surprised looks I got when taking off was hilarious :lol:

Let me know what you decide, I'd be interested to hear.

Regards TTM, I'm glad you got your sorted, I've just heard the storys... you know. I've also seen one of their dyno graphs for an evo.. it was showing 150hp at 1000rpm :whistle: a Excel job all the way!! Needless to say the car didn;t survive the trip from Galway to Dublin :shock:

@ Dave - I hear what your saying alright, but this discussion has been had before, TDP may have a bad rep but Robbie really does know his sh!t, and he did an amazing job tuning my engine, the graph was a straight line through 7500 rpm... not an easy feat, I'm sure you;ll agree. As for tuning factory, they do loads of Hondas and I'm sure they have a good knowledge, but on my charger they had left the map sensor reading atmosphere!! :ponder: So it didn;t inspire confidence in them


[/quote]


Ive seen a few TTM dyno graphs the last while and they where all crazy figures. Im amazed you have heard horror storys about TTM but not TDP. TDP invented the horror story. IIRC one of the club members here had his car tuned and rolling roaded at TDP and put out 479 or 489 but when it went on another rolling road it was early 400's. You might be suprised what SOME companys do for business. For instance If you get mapped from a rival mapper and go down you might get a low figure and told how you could do with a map or tweak etc etc.

There may be bad blood between TDP and the Tuning factory so that might explain why they couldent do anything right in the eyes of TDP. You have to read between the lines.
[/quote]

I hear what your saying Damo, and I know that quite a lot of people have problems with TDP, this isn;t the only place I've heard that, but I think that their main issue is that Robbie is so difficult to deal with and can be very condesending. Aside from all that, I do believe he has alot of knowledge with cars and I would value his opinion regarding anything automotive.

I believe my graph to be acurate on my civic, if you sat in it you would agree, but at the time I got it mapped, I saw a DC5 on the dyno first and it had 235hp and then mine went on straight after and I watched as he mapped it. The reason I was commenting on TTM dyno is that I was in TDP and shown the graph from TTM and the broken evo outside and the graph was obviously done on excel, I had my own in my hand to compare it with and nothing looked right.

Regarding bad blood between the 2 companies... I don;t know myself. I do know though when I went to pay for the install of the charger in tuning factory, they showed me the car and started it up, it wasn't holding revs, it kept reving up and droping back down intermitantly ( excuse my spelling ) this was due to the map sensor sending a reading of atmosphere pressure to the ECU rather than vacuum. TDP got my car and solved the problem. I was also not impressed by the way that tuning factory started the car with all the extras on it and the standard ECU, this would be a huge no no in my book, it also made me think they could have taken it for a spin in that state which would be very very bad for the enigine. I was very surprise that "experts" would do this and myself Joe Blogs knows better.

Anyway, lets not have this conversation again, we all have different opinions and TDP don;t do road cars anymore so there is no point talking about them. They are also the main Motec distributers in the country and they holds alot of weight with me

Sorry for the rant! I'm a scooby man now anyway :subaru:
 

The reason I was commenting on TTM dyno is that I was in TDP and shown the graph from TTM and the broken evo outside and the graph was obviously done on excel, I had my own in my hand to compare it with and nothing looked right.

I was also not impressed by the way that tuning factory started the car with all the extras on it and the standard ECU, this would be a huge no no in my book, it also made me think they could have taken it for a spin in that state which would be very very bad for the enigine. I was very surprise that "experts" would do this and myself Joe Blogs knows better.



Cill whats the problem with the excel sheet exactly ? Do you know what was the failure on the Evo was ?

What mods did you have dont to your car when the Tuning factory started your car up on the standard ECU ?

Damo
 
Hi Damo,

Can't remember exactly what happened with the evo, just know it needed new internals. The whole thing with the print out was, the dynometer itself prints out what it reads and its the same as what you see on the screen, the one I saw for that evo was not done by the dyno machine and therefore altered on excel after. It just looked wrong.

On my civic, at the time I had the following:
12psi supercharger
lightened flywheel
exceedy clutch
cold air induction kit V2
full decat exhaust 3"
high flow fuel rail and filter
440cc injectors - one was fooked, not their fault though
adjustable cam gears
new oils, coolant, gear oil, filter

I got 2 days out of it before the injector firing arseways caused a melted piston and then I got an oil cooler, spoon lead and plugs ( I know there denso ) bigger brakes, bigger rad, forged pistons, stronger rod pins and big end bolts, head ported, new belts, new spring retainers.. I'm sure I'm forgetting other things as well
 
[quote author=Cill link=topic=4965.msg54605#msg54605 date=1200415764]
Hi Damo,

Can't remember exactly what happened with the evo, just know it needed new internals. The whole thing with the print out was, the dynometer itself prints out what it reads and its the same as what you see on the screen, the one I saw for that evo was not done by the dyno machine and therefore altered on excel after. It just looked wrong.

On my civic, at the time I had the following:
12psi supercharger
lightened flywheel
exceedy clutch
cold air induction kit V2
full decat exhaust 3"
high flow fuel rail and filter
440cc injectors - one was fooked, not their fault though
adjustable cam gears
new oils, coolant, gear oil, filter

I got 2 days out of it before the injector firing arseways caused a melted piston and then I got an oil cooler, spoon lead and plugs ( I know there denso ) bigger brakes, bigger rad, forged pistons, stronger rod pins and big end bolts, head ported, new belts, new spring  retainers.. I'm sure I'm forgetting other things as well

[/quote]

Right, some mappers just put there road dyno results onto Excel so nothing major there. If you where running injectors that are a good bit larger then standard civic ones then its a mistake starting it up because they could have caused bore wash. But Ive got a new 2.5 Litre gone into my own car plus other things that arent mapped for but as long as I use the standard ECU and injectors and dont drive it hard its ok for running in. Anyway keep us updated on how things go :thumbsup:
 
that was me paul that waved at you today under the bridge while i was out walking the dogs,your car sounded lovely and cant wait to see the track car,are you hoping to have it for the start of this years track day season?
 
Nice1 DUFF :thumbsup:

I tought you were just one of them random weirdos that wave at loude cars :lol:

just waiting on a couple of quotes on the civic, sure il have the scoob on track any chance i get... :D
 
good luck with the track car paul.seen a civic at japfest and it was an animal to go. i'm turnin the rallye into a track car in a few months so keep me touch how your gettin on with yours. :thumbsup:
 
[quote author=Paul v4 link=topic=4965.msg55019#msg55019 date=1200518028]
Nice1 DUFF :thumbsup:

I tought you were just one of them random weirdos that wave at loude cars :lol:

just waiting on a couple of quotes on the civic, sure il have the scoob on track any chance i get... :D
[/quote]

he is one off them weirdos :angry:
 
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