Crash and Burn

K

Killiano92

Petrolheads
Anyone watch this on RTE last night? Was nearly depressed after watching it, very interesting though. Poor bloke is definitely damaged by the whole thing and bitter too. Can't say I can blame him. I reckon its nearly worse for him due to Senna dying and being immortalised in the sport so hes now totally forgotten about.
 
Was lucky to get the opportunity to see this in the lighthouse cinema in Dublin at the opening night. There was also a question and answers session with Tommy at this,so it was great to see the man in the flesh. I personally think he got a raw deal based on being so broke but in fairness he did himself little favours. Motorsport is mad especially F1,you need loads of money just to buy a seat so I think the fact that he pretty much got there with noting shows just how good he really was. I'd say today they might have diagnosed him with ADHD as the man was so wired and intense. In that film they don't mention for legal reasons that when he done that F1 test with McLaren he didn't even have full throttle! He was told this years later by one of the head technicians. Ron Dennis didn't like him and didn't thrust him with his car. All he needed was a break and maybe a little less partying [emoji1]
Great story and a true forgotten legend of Irish Motorsport[emoji106]


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Adrian Dunne said:
Was lucky to get the opportunity to see this in the lighthouse cinema in Dublin at the opening night. There was also a question and answers session with Tommy at this,so it was great to see the man in the flesh. I personally think he got a raw deal based on being so broke but in fairness he did himself little favours. Motorsport is mad especially F1,you need loads of money just to buy a seat so I think the fact that he pretty much got there with noting shows just how good he really was. I'd say today they might have diagnosed him with ADHD as the man was so wired and intense. In that film they don't mention for legal reasons that when he done that F1 test with McLaren he didn't even have full throttle! He was told this years later by one of the head technicians. Ron Dennis didn't like him and didn't thrust him with his car. All he needed was a break and maybe a little less partying [emoji1]
Great story and a true forgotten legend of Irish Motorsport[emoji106]


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Agreed, it shows the snobbery and elitism present in F1 but as you say, making it that far with nothing but talent to get him there shows his skill was truly great. Thats nuts about the McLaren! Bet that didn't please Ron Dennis that he was that good. Old Ron probably just thought of him as a peasant with an attitude problem. All too easy for a young lad who grew up in ireland in the 70s to be carried away by the flash lifestyle and partying. Would be hard not to when Ireland was still such a quiet and conservative place. If only he'd maybe kept the mouth shut a bit more...

I bet him and James Hunt would have got on like a house on fire. Not sure Hunt would have been a good influence on him re the drink/drugs/partying/women side of things.
 
Killiano92 said:
Agreed, it shows the snobbery and elitism present in F1 but as you say, making it that far with nothing but talent to get him there shows his skill was truly great. Thats nuts about the McLaren! Bet that didn't please Ron Dennis that he was that good. Old Ron probably just thought of him as a peasant with an attitude problem. All too easy for a young lad who grew up in ireland in the 70s to be carried away by the flash lifestyle and partying. Would be hard not to when Ireland was still such a quiet and conservative place. If only he'd maybe kept the mouth shut a bit more...

I bet him and James Hunt would have got on like a house on fire. Not sure Hunt would have been a good influence on him re the drink/drugs/partying/women side of things.
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He just needed a very wealthy respectful mate like Hunt had to sponsor his career and ultimately giving him the break he needed. I'd go out on a limb here and say I think Tommy was the more talented driver it seems. But there likeness is uncanny [emoji16][emoji106]


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Adrian Dunne said:
He just needed a very wealthy respectful mate like Hunt had to sponsor his career and ultimately giving him the break he needed. I'd go out on a limb here and say I think Tommy was the more talented driver it seems. But there likeness is uncanny [emoji16][emoji106]


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Would have been just what he needed! I would be inclined to agree, I think sheer power of will and huge balls got James Hunt his season win. Tommy looked to have more raw talent. Hunt was a good driver, not a great one but a great character of the sport.
 
Got to see this in the cinema in December last year.
Its hard to comprehend that some other F1 team didnt take a punt on him after that test.
I read the book a few years ago and I think its worth reading for further insight, particularly that test as said above he did tell about the meeting with the McLaren mechanic in that. Now that Dennis is gone from McLaren he can shout it from the roof tops, but the past is the past!
Reckon he should have sat it out in Europe for another year after that test.
Eddie Jordan was bitter towards him for throwing away his talent but in saying that he was starting a team in the early 90's and didn't give him a call?
As said above also its remarkable how far he got with no money but inevitably that may have also been his downfall having to socialise with the type of characters he had to fund his day to day expenses.
The London life was a far difference between what i can imagine was a fairly bleak place to be in Dundalk in the 80s!
 
Must pick up the book if I can! Yeah he should have stayed, you're right about Eddie though, he does seem bitter towards him. But I'd say if you were starting a new team and putting up your own cash Tommy would have been a big risk, smarter move from a business standpoint to bring someone who brings cash and sponsorship. Eddie's backers may have told him not to get Tommy in either, you never know...
 
theres no douth he could drive just like another irish man that was in f1 and his championship was robbed from him aswell by ferrari.

i have no sympathy for tommy as what fooking idiot turns up for a interview with two birds and your mate after a session.

he already had a bad name for himself with ron so if he wanted a seat he should have cared for it.

i can understand the peddle thing as they probably taught he was going to write off a f1 car WHEN he crashes after all the drink.

if they didnt like him sure he would have never been asked to the test in the first place, its a real pity.

i have read a good bit about him and have the film recorded just have to get a minute to watch it
 
DUFFMAN said:
theres no douth he could drive just like another irish man that was in f1 and his championship was robbed from him aswell by ferrari.

i have no sympathy for tommy as what fooking idiot turns up for a interview with two birds and your mate after a session.

he already had a bad name for himself with ron so if he wanted a seat he should have cared for it.

i can understand the peddle thing as they probably taught he was going to write off a f1 car WHEN he crashes after all the drink.

if they didnt like him sure he would have never been asked to the test in the first place, its a real pity.

i have read a good bit about him and have the film recorded just have to get a minute to watch it
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I'd agree that his lifestyle did stand somewhat in his way and I get the feeling he knows that himself to a degree. But they didn't ask him for the test he won that test by winning the championship that year. He really needed a good manager or someone to steer him correctly. He was incredibly talented and if the equivalent of him was playing football in England back then he would be a multi millionaire today.


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Killiano92 said:
Must pick up the book if I can! Yeah he should have stayed, you're right about Eddie though, he does seem bitter towards him. But I'd say if you were starting a new team and putting up your own cash Tommy would have been a big risk, smarter move from a business standpoint to bring someone who brings cash and sponsorship. Eddie's backers may have told him not to get Tommy in either, you never know...
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You are probably right, least we forget it was a certain Michael Schumacher who was in that Jordan seat in the early days!
 
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Eddie had a good eye for drivers, he may have seen more potential in Shuey at the time, gave him his debut and the rest is history..
 
I have a copy of the book and I've read it a few times. There's a mountain of details left out of film....id highly recommend recommens the book. There's a mountain of stuff about senna and big Ron that was left out of the film. Also the stuff he did in the endurance racing scene.

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Really enjoyed it watched it twice

Unreal raw tallent

Felt for the man with some good guidance/People he could have been a F1 driver

Glad the seems to have made peace with it now say the gf helped straighten him out



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I agree with adrian and think today he could well be diagnosed with something. From the film alone you can tell he was so intense. For sure being broke held him back but i cant help but feel if his attitude was tailored, or if he was coached properly in the early days we could well have a F1 champion in him. So i don't think it was solely the money held him back. If he was rock solid he would have got his drive with McLaren. But by then it was too late, the damage was done. I feel for him, i really do. What a talent! Respect to him!
 
I think you will always have dividing opinions on him as a person. But that level of talent can not be denied. He knew how to drive fast but he also knew exactly how the car should feel which probably made the car just an extension of himself. I have heard this expression in many sports but I'd say there is few that could have that level of connection with the the item they are using. I have heard it said about golfers being so connected with there clubs that it becomes an extension of themselves. So if you could get this connection in a race car like Tommy had I'm sure it made things seem quite easy for him. Unfortunately I'd say he just broke towards the end. Love him or hate him I still believe he is a true legend of the sport.


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i had never heard of him
real shame but many a good sportsman has been undone due to personal problems
 
i had never heard of him
real shame but many a good sportsman has been undone due to personal problems
 
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