ECU Review for my Legacy RS

Hi Folks,

this is just an information for all Legacy drivers who are looking into mapping their Stock ECU of the models pre 1999 (Not the B4).
From my researches and information I got from our own club-members / dealers, I know that a Legacy pre 1999 is almost impossible to re-map cheaply.
Means: You need a piggyback system which cost you ~2200.- jojos.

I have taken the chellange and bought the 1998 RS STi from Gizmo5 against the advise from friends and other people because there is the problem with mapping the stock ECU on crappy irish/british fuel and the low octane numbers here on our beloved island.

During my investigation how to trick the system, I was a bit confused by the following facts:
- On my ECU seems to be no speed delimiter (usually jap-imports are limited to 180km/h).
- My ECU has a sticker saying "Eifel - Prova concept of Nuerburgring" or so and the Nuerburgring race track shape. First I thought someone put a sticker on the box, but it isn't.

Since I am still researching for further documentation (Workshop book etc...) I found out, that my ECU is called "PROVA Super Sports"

Prova Super Sports ECU - Review

The Prova SS-ECU for a BD Twin Turbo Subaru Legacy is made in Japan and in Europe almost unknown (Strange enough since they call it "Prova concept of Nuerburgring").
Most information is in Japanese, and with the help of a colleague in Japan (Thanks to Hatamoto or just Hamo) I got some figures and information translated into English, that I can write up some review my self.

The Prova ECU is not such an agressive upgrade compared to others, which is why it is safer than some other ECUs. Prova goes for someone, who is conservative with maps that modestly lean out the fuel/air ratios, raise the boost and provide for a bit of timing advance. The problem with it is endemic to any ECU replacement, in that you still lack any adjustment for any changes outside of those that Prova anticipated - which is basically some sort of hi-flow panel filter and a cat-back exhaust (Prova admitted that they have tuned it specifically for a Fujitsubo cat-back). As long as you don't go too far, the Prova ECU is a good, safe ECU that definitely is better than the stock ECU. The Prova ECU is a plug'n'play system and it takes roughly 10 minutes to put it in.

Under the old factory ECU the primary turbo would peak at about 0.6-0.7 bar boost and fall back to 0.5-0.6 bar. While the secondary turbo would peak at 0.9 bar and fall back to 0.6 bar. With the PROVA ECU the primary peaks and holds 0.7 bar and the secondary peaks and holds 1.0-1.1 bar in normal driving. Under load however 1.2 bar has been hit. Naturally now with the secondary turbo on boost the car feels significantly faster. More importantly the primary boost peaks much quicker making the engine feel much smoother and responsive. In testing in 4th gear boost hit 0.3 and 0.8 bar at 2000 and 2500rpm respectively. While the famous valley of death feels reduced.

The Prova SS-ECU is tuned for quicker engine response and a wider torque range.

ECU FEATURES

Since the ECU can now learn via the knock sensor to handle 95 octane fuel, you are driving much safer with the Irish fuel.
However I would suggest to go for the Maxol E5 at least or still use some octane boost on the 95 octane low premium fuel.

From what I found out in the net, you can get the Prova ECU much cheaper then e.g. the MoTec system wich off course is much more flexible and enhanced then the Prova ECU.
It is just a matter where you set the priority.

If you like to get more information where to get one of these ECUs, you can look in Ebay (found this one today: http://cgi.ebay.ie/Subaru-Prova-Performance-ECU-STI-WRX-Forester-LegacyGC8_W0QQitemZ250278317712QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250278317712&_trkparms=72%3A1301|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14) or send me a PM. I will try to find out more details where else you could order such an ECU.

I hope it helps a bit and I could bring some light into the mystics of Legacy mapping.

Akki

Re: ECU Review for my B4 RS

well done Akki....
thats some bit of homework uv done there....that info should help a lot of legacy owners out there ,rather than haveing to spend so much on a upgrade ecu...
there is lots of little toys in that legacy ....keep the good work up ,and il meet up some eve with ya for that spin we chatted about

Re: ECU Review for my B4 RS

Problem is though thats not a b4..its an RS different set up..your car runs 260bhp standard lower compression lower boost..the b4 runs 280bhp higheer compression and higher boost and higher revs.
Any BE tt can be flashed on ecutek software thus eliminating the need for a piggy or replacement ecu

Re: ECU Review for my B4 RS

[quote author=Dagnut link=topic=10065.msg119574#msg119574 date=1223389458]
Problem is though thats not a b4..its an RS different set up..your car runs 260bhp standard lower compression lower boost..the b4 runs 280bhp higheer compression and higher boost and higher revs.
Any BE tt can be flashed on ecutek software thus eliminating the need for a piggy or replacement ecu
[/quote]

Aehhhmmm... Not 100% right. I have compared the type no, vin-no and model number with a list.
My RS is a BD5 model and has actually the same specs. It is defo a 205 kw engine (~280 hp).
The model you have in mind is the A type(09/93-06/96) which has 183 kw (~248 hp).

If you want, I can send you all docs I have digged out over the last couple of weeks

Akki

Re: ECU Review for my B4 RS

either way its not a b4 and b4's can be flashed

Re: ECU Review for my B4 RS

[quote author=akki link=topic=10065.msg119564#msg119564 date=1223388474]

From my researches and information I got from our own club-members / dealers, I know that a B4 pre 2000 is almost impossible to re-map cheaply.
Means: You need a piggyback system which cost you ~2200.- jojos.
[/quote]

Dave in STi Tuning and Bob Rawle would disagree! I had my 1999 B4 mapped about 3 weeks ago, not a problem and not too expensive either!!

Re: ECU Review for my B4 RS

Don't kill me guys... I am quite new to the Lagacy stuff... I thought they're all B4's. Obviously I was wrong. So I will correct me in this case and will talk about all Legacy's pre 1999.
Is that right now?

@Dagnut: Maybe you can give me a proper answer what the difference is between a B4 and a non-B4 model? Is that in general that all models post '99 are B4's or what is that?

Sorry, I didn't ment to insult anyone here and the post was just to share my findings about the whole mapping mambo-jambo re. Legacy.



Akki

Re: ECU Review for my B4 RS

no insults don't get me wrong that wasn't intened just mean't the info is unnessary for a b4 owner as they can be flashed.
of the top of my head the ej20h revs lower, but has maxium torque avaialble lower turbos kick lower? ?I don't know much about the rs ovibously in the fact i thought it was 260bhp..

Re: ECU Review for my B4 RS

jes lads ye dont half get wound up :lol: :lol: now dont bite my head off but is the engines not the same in the rs and the b4...both 2.0 twin turbo ..just with diff managment systems and loom....dont they both run the same spec turbos ....now as i said i dont know the answer to any of the above questions, so il just leave it to ye that might know ,or be arsed ta look up :lol: iam to lazy :lol:

Re: ECU Review for my B4 RS

[quote author=Dagnut link=topic=10065.msg119651#msg119651 date=1223398754]
no insults don't get me wrong that wasn't intened just mean't the info is unnessary for a b4 owner as they can be flashed.
of the top of my head the ej20h revs lower, but has maxium torque avaialble lower turbos kick lower? ?I don't know much about the rs ovibously in the fact i thought it was 260bhp..
[/quote]

No prob mate...

You are right. The EJ20H was indeed build with 250hp and 260hp. The RS I have has the EJ20R engine mounted.
The differences are as follow:

EJ20H has either 250 or 260 hp at 6500 rpm
EJ20R has 280 hp at 6500 rpm

Intercept revolution (rpm) PR / 2ndr (switch from turbo 1 to turbo 2): EJ20H 250hp - 2100/4100; EJ20H 260hp - 2800/3600; EJ20R 280hp - 3500/4000

All of them use the L JETRO sequential injection,

The EJ20H 250 hp has the IHI RHF4B and the EJ20H 260 hp and the EJ20R 280 hp have the IHI RHF42 turbos.

The max. boost is slightly different as well:
250 hp = 0.6 bar
260 hp = 0.65 bar
280 hp = 0.75 bar

All use the same spark plugs.

Now I still don't know the difference between a B4 and my RS.

Please let me know. What is the difference... Obviously there are also B4 RS models and a GT Twin turbo with 280 hp...

As I said already, I thought they are all B4's but just the type of ECU has been changed over the years and the model pre '99 are not easy to map.

Akki

PS... Gizmo... Just saw your answer when I was typing mine I think it answeres your question as well....

Ahh yes, they all use different ECU's

EJ20H 250hp ECU Type: T5,8C or R6,7C
EJ20H 260hp ECU Type: 9H, 5G or 13
EJ20R 280hp ECU Type: 87

Re: ECU Review for my B4 RS

98 on facelift B4 Legacys can be mapped using Ecutek just to clear any confusion up.

93-98 Legacys are callled Legacy GT's

89-93 Legacys are called Legacy RS


One thing i will say is that the illusion from the above is the the engine has the power.

As in had a call the other day from a lad with a type r asking that if he got a rebuild and a remap wat sort of power would the car produce.?? car was standard. I said depends on the fuel and many other factors. Said maybe 295-305 or so.
He said to me why would i do that. My mate says he can get a 320bhp engine second hand!!

So fully lost on how he thought could take out a engine and drop another one in and change nothing and no map and gain 35-40 bhp.


But would be how above looks.

Re: ECU Review for my B4 RS

OK,,, I think I got it.

Second generation (1993-1999)

Second generation sales in Japan began with model year 1993, and 1995 marked the second generation in North America with a full body and chassis revision. The exterior was designed by Olivier Boulay, who was hired by Subaru on a short-term basis. In 1996, Subaru decided to make AWD standard equipment in all vehicles produced for the USA market from that year to today's current date. Subaru still offers a choice between FWD and AWD for its domestic market vehicles.

GT models, first offered as a wagon trim package for the USA version in 1994, became a full-blown upgrade in 1996, using the new DOHC 2.5 L engine. GT models continue to the present model, with Limited editions available, offering heated leather, or cloth, seats and trim and a tinted, glass moonroof. Driver and front passenger airbags were added with the redesigned interior. New equipment added to the list of features included RF remote keyless entry, fog lights on the upper trim levels and speed-sensitive power steering.

1999 Marked the 30th anniversary of Subaru, and the last of the second generation in North America. There was a special 30th Anniversary Edition offered with upgraded interior and sunroof, spoiler, alloy wheels on the "L" trim level cars. The Brighton trim level also carried over from the facelifted first generation version that was priced below the "L" trim option. The "GT" trim level appeared in 1996. The term "Limited" appeared on the "GT", known as the "GT Limited" in 1998. The term "Limited" was used by itself on the Outback in 1998.

In Japan, the GT-B was introduced June 1996 with the front and rear struts supplied by Bilstein, with the upgrade also available on the RS. The "B" designation stood for Bilstein. The GT-B can also be distinguished by upgraded projector beam headlight lenses.

A unusual interior change placed the power window switches flat against the door panel, whereas the window switches for the first generation and third generation extended from the door panels and were oriented in a horizontal position and were located underneath the drivers or occupants hands for easy location and use, and integrated into the door pull and armrest. The express up feature for the driver's window was also removed, leaving express down only. The power door lock switch design was upgraded to a more conventional door lock switch, installed next to the power window switches, with a secondary power lock switch installed for the front passenger.

Side turn signal repeater lenses that were introduced on the USA 1992-1994 Legacy were replaced by a plastic cap that matched the color of the door rub strip on vehicles sold in North America.

Legacy RS Twin Turbo

Turbocharged versions continued to be available in most non-US markets. Specialty touring and racing versions were available in Japan, as well as the DOHC 2 liter twin sequential turbocharged (EJ20H) version and on the Legacy RS sedan and wagon (EJ20R), listed as "Boxer 2-stage Twin Turbo" on the engine cover shroud. The twin turbo can only be installed on right-hand drive vehicles because the turbo on the left side interferes with both the brake master cylinder and steering linkage, among other things. A minor performance problem with the twin turbo is there was a "turbo dead zone" that surfaced between the transition from the first turbo before the second turbo would kick in around 3500-4000 rpm. A continuous traction delivery system, called VTD by Subaru, was used with all JDM turbocharged vehicles with the automatic transmission. The VTD AWD system is a permanent AWD due to its 36% / 64% split.

Third generation (1998-2004)

Subaru launched the third generation Japanese and world-market Legacy in June 1998, while the North American model was introduced in 2000. All models were equipped with standard, symmetrical all wheel drive. World-market and Japanese models ranged from a normally-aspirated 2.0 liter flat-4 to the EZ30 in the 3.0R model.

Flat roof wagons are no longer manufactured worldwide, and instead the raised roof is used for both the Legacy wagon and Legacy Outback.

In 2001 the EZ30, a newly designed 3.0 L H6 was offered in the Outbacks.

The Legacy is the only vehicle in this class that provides AWD as standard equipment.

The 4 speed automatic transmission, had a feature where the transmission could be instructed to ignore 1st gear from a standing stop to assist driving on traction limited situations, such as ice and snow. The system was activated by moving the gearshift from the "D" position down to "2nd". The car would then start in 2nd gear, and not 1st. The transmission also splits the delivered torque 50-50 between the front and rear wheels. Once the car stopped, the transmission would start back in 2nd and not 1st, until the system was upshifted to 4th.

The automatic transmission also has the ability to change the shift points, and hold the gears longer when the engine is operating at higher RPM's. This is achieved by pressing the accelerator pedal rapidly, which causes the transmission to hold the gear until 5000 rpm before shifting to the next gear. No indicator light appears in the instrument cluster, unlike previous generations. The transmission also has engine over-rev protection by shifting the transmission to the next available gear once 6500 rpm has been achieved, even if the gear selector is in a low gear position.

Japanese-spec vehicles with the twin turbo had a Semi-automatic transmission, that allowed the driver to push the automatic gearshift selector to the left, and then allow the driver to shift the automatic like a manual transmission.

B4

The B4 model carries over from the second generation and is a sedan-only model. The RSK featured the familiar DOHC, twin-turbo 2.0l outputting 280 hp (210 kW) in manual guise, 265 pr in automatic Tiptronic form. This results in a 0-60 mph time of 5.7 s for the Manual and 6.7 s for the automatic.

The models exported to Australia were detuned to run on lower octane (98ron) fuel and as a result had a lower power output of 190 kW (258 PS/255 hp) for the manual and 176 kW (239 PS/236 hp) for the automatic models. This results in a 0-60 mph time of 6.5 s for the Manual and 7.1 s for the automatic.

The manual B4 had a power split of 50/50 to the front and rear wheels, the automatic has a 35/65 split.

A B4 RS model was equipped with a less powerful, normally aspirated 2.0 L DOHC engine, but shared many of the body and suspension components of the more powerful RSK.

In 2001, a B4 RS25 model was introduced with a normally aspirated 2.5 L DOHC engine.

In 2002, the B4 RS30 was introduced with a normally aspirated 3.0 L EZ30 DOHC flat-six engine.

Now... As you can see, the B4 had a GT and a RS aswell.

(Source: Wikipedia)

Now I see clearly