v5 type r engine trouble

well lads just posting this for a friend of mine .ok its a 99 v5 type r engine rebiult standard 2 years ago with subaru parts he is a mechanic and so am i , we put it back together ran it in for 1000 km changing oil and filter 4 times during that .then fitted vf 34 turbo walbro pump and new fuel filter ngk pfr7b plugs sard fuel reg removed induction kit and put back airbox with a new maf and oxygen sensor and weber alpha air fuel moniter then got mapped for 95 octane by andy forrest , car was running great for the two years was at the ring last year and did 3 to 4 trackdays in mondello is only a weekend car so not much mileage done but would be well drivin when used but no more than i would drive the wagon ,he was at the ring again last weekend had done 5 laps with 15 to 20 minute breaks in between ,he was on his sixth lap bout half way round its an up hill section with very high speed 130 to 135 approx when he said it was like he turned off the key no noise or warning light just cut out and was spitting flames and smoke out exhaust ,anyway got towed off the track to a garage and the lads there did a compression check and no compression on no 3 at all and low on one other cylinder , so now it needs a rebuild he is goin for a fully forged build with ali burrows his questions (1)will this be enough for reliability with a remap .(2)should he change injectors what size are his and change to what ?(3)is sard fuel reg sufficient or should that be changed (4)should it have a front mount intercooler?(5)should a front mount oil cooler be fitted ? sorry for the long winded post but just want to see what ye think of this and what to do he does not mind building it just to have to do it again would be very disheartening thanks in advance

I think a steel build would be enough for reliability, but in fairness the last one should've lasted longer than 2 years.

Was the oil pump changed when the engine was last built?

Larger injectors running at 50% is always better than smaller ones running at 80% but smaller will work, but personally I'd go bigger, like 740cc Nismos or 850cc Power Enterprise. His car probably has yellow tops which are 440cc

I use a Sard FPR in my 2.5 sti and have no issues, i think they are fine but other lads might think different.

A front mount will only reduce charge tempertures, If the failure was cause by det etc then yeah i would change to front mount, but the V5/V6 top mount is meant to be good for 400Bhp AFAIK, or is that new age

As for the oil cooler, I'm not sure if it needs one, does the car have oil pressure and oil temp guages? If it does and high temps are recorded then yes, if not then leave well enough alone. After all Subaru's have a liquid oil cooler built in beside the oil filter.

Hope that helps and you get her sorted soon

ye would have taught it should have lasted longer than that too ,oil pump was not changed but dismantled and cleaned no excessive wear found,he was thinkin of rcm 550 cc injectors but maybe bigger if needed,it has yellows at the mo,he has no oil temp gauge or pressure gauge so dont know if it was very hot or not but would say knowing him thanks for help man

Maybe the addition of Oil Temp Guage and Pressure guage would be a good starting point when engine is up and running again....
I know its something that alot of people say they should have had after something goes wrong and they arent sure what caused it.....

ye would definitely be no harm to fit a few gauges hopefully when its stripped we can find the reason it happened

Im no expert.......(stand to be corrected....) but if no compression in piston 3 that indicates to oil starvation and we all know how often Subaru
oil pumps fail.

So i would suggest , modiffied oil pump , modified fuel pump , fuel regulator, bigger injectors, FMIC and yes i would fit
a front mount oil cooler also................cool air & cool engine is always a bonus

Oil pressure & Temp gauges probably would of warned your mate before it was too late


Oh ya if he's going for extra Power new brakes (if not already done) would be good mod also.


NIall.

ye would agree with ya there niall i think its better to be safe with it and do it right for once and for all ,he already has 330 mm brakes and yellowstuff pads on it so no probs there

Dont matter what kind of build you get done, if you suffer oil starvation, all will fail, whether it a 1k euro engine or 10k euro engine... with oil starvation it doesnt matter whether engine is only 5days old, has only 2k miles, has new oil pump, new modene, fmic, injectors etc etc..
A scooby doing track days is especially prone to stavation, many different factors may cause it , long sweeping bend, sticky tyres, going at it harder harder and harder as you get better etc etc... if you can imagine say an evo engine with its vertical cylinders, when on a bend say with sticky tyres theg forces will push oil up the walls of sump but would find it hard to push much further where as the boxer engine has horizontal cylinder and on same bend oil will climb walls of sump but can make its way out into cylinders, leaving you with less oil in sump to pick up.... this is very well documented on 22B.COM.... guys have even noticed there oil pressure dropping on notorious bends on Uk tracks, and certain bends are known for it more than others, sticky tyres have big factor aswell
So imo baffled sump is the best thing your mate can put on car if he intends doing track time.. im sure if he tells Ali his intended use that Ali would probably recomend baffled sump or plate...
I have heard of guys using the newer twin scroll sump aseembly, its better that the classic..
think Cosworth do a baffled plate you put in your own sump, others do a full sump with a pot in the bottom that always has oil in it and lifter sits down into the pot...
Subaru dont have a great design really, if you consider where the oil filter is and where the oil cooler is (surrounded by red hot manifold) its almost like they wanted to keep them hot or something so maybe an oil cooler be good idea for track use aswell.. think the ones to go for now are a thermostat controlled set up... so no1 on my list would be baffled sump to try prevent oil starvation on track.. no2 oil cooler to keep temp down.. oil choice very important as some oils come unstable at high temps.... good map and maybe fmic

Think marko got a Cosworth baffled plate for his yoke

thats a good idea ken and one we had not taught of that could well be why it let go, some parts of the ring are very high speed and high g in bends cause he is on toyo r888 tyres tyres so thats definitely worth lookin into i wonder which would be better a sump or cossie baffle plate

Its a major major issue that you would be completly mad not to address especially if getn new engine built....
you could see your engine die first time out on a bend .. as i said b4 it may not happen first time it could be a year away, but it will
everytime you suffer a bit of oil starvation, you are getting a little bit closer to a failure...

no use of an impreza is as likely to cause it than track use.. rallying. draging, etc etc are less likely....
to be honest i get fed up reading the long winded ongoing projects that are happening in Uk..
but unfortunetly, as much as people hate to admit it the Brits are usually a good year or 2 ahead of us in there set ups and advancment.. mainly due to the size of scooby population and the amount of trials of products due to the same...
i think that they may have moved on from fitting sump plates and moved onto the sumps with the pot in bottom that i mentioned earlier.. and aswell have gone from simple oil cooler to thermostaticaly controlled set up.. i think rather than playing catch up, do a bit of research to what is being used over there and be on top of things
But you really may investigate it your self as i only have looked at this subject in passing or by accident, never with research in mind

Thanks ken will defo look at it in detail cause the last thing he wants is the same happening again and considering that it is tracked a lot here and germany every year it would be money well spent thanks for your help man

With regards to picking injectors. First set yourself a hp goal and match accordingly. Too big of a injector running at low percentage of its capability will give a really bad spray during operation. They may do the job at WOT but when trying to tune a car's "part throttle" and you attempt to lean out a rich mixture and select a pulse width that is shorter than the injector’s minimum dynamic flow range the injector becomes inconsistent in its ability to supply the required fuel. This will result in poor engine performance, surging and stumbling. In other words bigger isn’t always better!

[quote author=Power22b link=topic=18219.msg228880#msg228880 date=1255550998]
With regards to picking injectors. First set yourself a hp goal and match accordingly. Too big of a injector running at low percentage of its capability will give a really bad spray during operation. They may do the job at WOT but when trying to tune a car's "part throttle" and you attempt to lean out a rich mixture and select a pulse width that is shorter than the injector’s minimum dynamic flow range the injector becomes inconsistent in its ability to supply the required fuel. This will result in poor engine performance, surging and stumbling. In other words bigger isn’t always better!
[/quote]any idea what size would be best he only wants about 350 max

550s would suit about 350 or 660s if he wanted abit more in the future

As above,
Kenc hit the nail on the head regarding oil issues,
I have a prodrive fully baffled sump in mine, expensive, but cheaper then a rebuild! so that would be the 1st priority,
Then the oil cooler, the spec c setup is neat!
I would keep the standard top mount if only running 350bhp
And I have heard that the smaller injecters running higher percentages are more efficient then big ones running low, I'm not sure what the most efficient percentage is, but 550cc with a fuel reg will definately be grand! 440cc are good for 340 with out a reg!
Best of luck to your mate!
Dan

[quote author=wagon dec link=topic=18219.msg228939#msg228939 date=1255563307]
[quote author=Power22b link=topic=18219.msg228880#msg228880 date=1255550998]
With regards to picking injectors. First set yourself a hp goal and match accordingly. Too big of a injector running at low percentage of its capability will give a really bad spray during operation. They may do the job at WOT but when trying to tune a car's "part throttle" and you attempt to lean out a rich mixture and select a pulse width that is shorter than the injector’s minimum dynamic flow range the injector becomes inconsistent in its ability to supply the required fuel. This will result in poor engine performance, surging and stumbling. In other words bigger isn’t always better!
[/quote]any idea what size would be best he only wants about 350 max
[/quote]

550's will do fine if aiming for 350@ the fly

thanks man he was thinkin 600 but if 550 is enough that will do